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Wednesday, March 05, 2003
 
Which do we give preference to: Fighting the apostate rulers or the kuffar ?
mullah
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Which do we give preference to: Fighting the apostate rulers or the kuffar ?
I have a question.
Which do we give preference to: Fighting the apostate rulers or the kuffar i.e. ? Jews and Christians. What if we are unable to channel all our efforts on the Kuffar because we are fighting the Apostates and what if this causes more harm than good to the ummah. I heard Sheikh Usaamah Ibn Laden saying in 1 speech that Muslims should concentrate their efforts on the head of the Kuffar i.e America and its allies.

Anybody care to help out . Jazakallah Khair



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02-20-2003 01:14 PM



Abu Dujanah
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Assalamu 'alaykum,

Brother mullah, ibn muhammed, may Allah grant you success;

Know, may Allah have mercy upon you, that the Jew, Christian, or shall we say, the 'original kaafir', as our Salaf categorised them, are disbelievers of a slightly lighter sense than the apostate. The apostate is not - according to the more correct view - given time to repent. And fighting the aposates, as Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah clearly mentions in his Fataawaa is more of a priority than fighting the original kaafir, simply because the apostate knew Islaam and left it out of arrogance and envy, and his desires.

But, here comes the answer to your question: today, in this world we live in, these categories of apostate and original kaafir exist - but only theoretically. The reality of the matter is, the apostate regimes in the Muslim lands are more of a priority to fight, but, if one studies it properly, their whole source of power in the black house in Washington. Meaning: fighting the apostates would necessitate fighting the kufaar of Washington, the apostates today are unlike the apostates of the past in this aspect - their source of power is not within them, it lies externally.

The idea then, is correct, sound and true. But can it be applied in the real world? No, and contemporary history of various Islaamic movements and uprisings testifies to this. And Allah knows best.

- Abu Dujanah.



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02-20-2003 02:44 PM



newsman
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the statement in my opinion applies to Iraq.. Secondly to fight anywhere anytime anyplace, we need a base, and unity through it,,, From Afghanistan this can be seen via the organisation of the mujahideen and it is logical to target the Americans in that area,, he is appealing for same situation in Iraq, however in areas like pakistan the target can only be the apostate rulers,, as there removal would mean the chance of unity for the muslims and to protect the neighbouring muslims on both sides...Fighting however can only be legitimate in fighting US military targets... whereas against the apostate rulers, the public needs to be raised, and they need to be replaced.

But this is my opinion,, and i am not a scholar nor a stategist... If anyone has an answer, please elaborate on reasons..



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02-20-2003 02:45 PM



Raafi
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very good question

abu, i dont understand your answer

i also understand not wanting to fight muslims, such as jordan for supplying america with air bases, but i dont see why not fix the muslim countries first

not necessarily with violent conflict, but with educating the masses with deen

i hear a lot of speeches of politics, fighting oppression, etc

but i think that circumvents the real issue

the masses of muslims are ignorant of the correct understanding of deen, and i am not just talking aqeedah, but basic understanding of death and the day of judgement

this is an area i agree upon, we were told we would get the leaders we deserve, so if we have apostate leaders, then that means the muslims have left their deen

the correction, i believe is in talking to our weaker brothers and sisters, reminding them of islam, not by blowing up tourism buses

i have never lived overseas, so i am speaking from the comfort of my computer


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02-20-2003 06:26 PM



UmmKhubayb
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quote:
The apostate is not - according to the more correct view - given time to repent.

Isn't there a hadith that they are given 3 jumu'ah's to repent? And if they don't then execute them?


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02-20-2003 06:38 PM



newsman
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bro Raafi,, i agree to about 100% ..i.e we must raise the level of deen in the ummah, and this is how we fight the apostate rulers.

However, to raise the level of the ummah we must realise, that first they are already muslim, and hence our task is very easy, we must just fill the gaps.

For example in Pakistan, spiritualism is very high in the peoples mind, even if they themselves are not spiritual. Example of this is many times i have heard many pakistani elders have respect for the founder of sikh etc, just because, he went to jungle and grew his hair and nails (and yuk yuk yuk) , you see, people sometimes wrongly see him as having abondoned the dunya completely. Hence top on the list to teach muslims of pakistan is how Islam solves not only the spiritual problems but social, economics and political problems as well.

And my (very crude and in brief) understanding of Saudia Arab, they have the knowledge at their feet in many classical books, however they can't seam to grasp how the classical books are relevant today and are blinded by the American image...

and so forth

One important concept we need to get through the people is that Islam is a 100% complete deen and does not allow compromise of any sort in any way shape or form....



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02-20-2003 07:56 PM



Abu Dujanah
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Assalamu 'alaykum,

Uncle Raafi': these apostates get their power from Washington, agree? Which means that in the process of fighting them, you're going to have to fight Washington, and thus this idea of categorising the enemy into: "Jews in Palestine", "The kufaar of Washington" and "the apostates" doesn't exist - because they are all linked up together. Fighting one, means fighting all. Clear uncle? : )

- Abu Dujanah.


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O Allah teach us how to live, and we will learn how to die!

Imaam Muhammed bin 'Abdulwahaab said: "Verily those tawagheet, whom people believe, that it is obligatory to obey besides Allah - they are all kufaar apostates from Islaam.

"How can you say no?! When they make halaal what Allah made haraam, and made haraam what Allah has made halaal, and they seek to corrupt the land with their words, and actions and support? And whoever argues for them, or is critical of the one who does takfeer of them, or claims that this act of theirs - although wrong - still doesn't take them out of Islaam to kufr, then the least that one can say of this arguer is that he is a faasiq, because the deen of Islaam cannot be upright except with by seeking innocence from those people, and doing takfeer of them". - ar-Rasaa`il ash-Shakhsiyyah, page 188.

Jihaad was recalled in the precence of Imaam Ahmad, so he wept and said: "There is no act of piety better than it".

May Allah have mercy upon Imaam Ahl as-Sunnah, Ahmad bin Hanbal whom it was narrated said: "If you see people differing, then look for the people of thughoor (the frontlines), and see what they are upon. As Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, says: "And those who did Jihaad in Our way, then we will guide them to Our Path".

"This finger, that testifies to Allah's Oneness in prayer, refuses to write one letter affirming support to the rule of a taaghoot"- Sayyid Qutb, rahimahullah, infront of some judges at court.



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02-20-2003 09:43 PM



Raafi
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ok, fine, i will accept that explanation, but as i think it thru, it seems to get more and more foggy

so there is no difference between the attacking of a king hussein or a saddam hussein, or george himself, right?

when i look at abu bakr, he was faced with many choices, he chose those who refused to pay zakat, there were muslims apostating, some fake prophets, the clear kafirs, but he chose those who refused the zakat first, i dont know exactly what the lesson is to be learned, but that is one example

to be honest, this whole thing is so messy, i just cant see which is the clearer way, whether we should behead bush or saddam first,

but maybe we have more choices

we can hate them all, or make dua that Allah guides them to this deen, but lashing out at anybody and everybody kinda just doesnt seem like thats the proper way of handling this

if you or me were the leader of the CG muslims as a group of mujahideen, would you command an attack on bush, saddam or would we choose another method?

if i was in charge, i think i would have everyone train, be on standby, teach, learn, have lots of babies, and wait till Allah makes things much clearer

that may sound like cowardice, but to me today, just to think about having a small group attacking the larger group, who are muslims/apostates or whatever, its just not clear to me

on one hand, i say go to bush, because thats clear, on the other hand, i say fix the ummah first, preparation

i remember a hadith that towards the last day, when muslims are fighting each other, its better to break your sword than to fight muslims

of course, thru history muslims have fought each other, but i wonder how their account with Allah is

at badr, it was clear, with rome, it was clear, today its just not that clear, and being our methods have been reduced flying airplanes into buildings, again, thats not as clear to me

as the prophet made dua, and Allah sent him umar, maybe one day, saddam, or hussein, or some other leader will be on the side of the muslims


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02-20-2003 11:20 PM



Abu Dujanah
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Assalamu 'alaykum,

Uncle, may Allah preserve you, englighten you, and increase you in wisdom:

It all comes hand in hand, as, ash-Shaheed Suraaqah al-Andaloosi, 'alayhi rahmatullah, said in his final will and testimony (paraphrasing): "The path to revival is knowledge, preparation and jihaad. And these are not separate stages, but all come in together."

As for: who shall we attack first, Bush, or Saddam? Well, experience has taught us that Saddam and his likes from the apostate cowards are mere puppets: they come, they go. Best example ofcourse would be that of Egypt: bye bye Sadat, good morning Mubaarak. So, we ought to look: who places these apostates in their place, and who strengthens them. Certainly the nations are against them - this, in this there is no doubt as is clear to any searcher for the truth. So - who puts them in place? How on earth did aal-Su'ood come to power? Answer: Britiain, taken over now by the black house in Washington.

So, if you were to ask: who shall we attack first? We say: The white house so that it may turn black by the permission of Allah, al'azeez al-jabbar, the United Nations and all the rest of the movements of disbelief and taghoot systems.

- Abu Dujanah.


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O Allah teach us how to live, and we will learn how to die!

Imaam Muhammed bin 'Abdulwahaab said: "Verily those tawagheet, whom people believe, that it is obligatory to obey besides Allah - they are all kufaar apostates from Islaam.

"How can you say no?! When they make halaal what Allah made haraam, and made haraam what Allah has made halaal, and they seek to corrupt the land with their words, and actions and support? And whoever argues for them, or is critical of the one who does takfeer of them, or claims that this act of theirs - although wrong - still doesn't take them out of Islaam to kufr, then the least that one can say of this arguer is that he is a faasiq, because the deen of Islaam cannot be upright except with by seeking innocence from those people, and doing takfeer of them". - ar-Rasaa`il ash-Shakhsiyyah, page 188.

Jihaad was recalled in the precence of Imaam Ahmad, so he wept and said: "There is no act of piety better than it".

May Allah have mercy upon Imaam Ahl as-Sunnah, Ahmad bin Hanbal whom it was narrated said: "If you see people differing, then look for the people of thughoor (the frontlines), and see what they are upon. As Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, says: "And those who did Jihaad in Our way, then we will guide them to Our Path".

"This finger, that testifies to Allah's Oneness in prayer, refuses to write one letter affirming support to the rule of a taaghoot"- Sayyid Qutb, rahimahullah, infront of some judges at court.



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02-20-2003 11:29 PM



newsman
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i think we definitely need a focus and aim which is broken up,, so in my opinion categorising does help



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02-20-2003 11:30 PM



Abu Dujanah
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Assalamu 'alaykum,

Auntie Umm Khubayb

quote:
Isn't there a hadith that they are given 3 jumu'ah's to repent? And if they don't then execute them?


Allahu a'lam, but I am ignorant of such a hadeeth. Many of the scholars of Islaam, saw it permissable to give the apostate three days to repent in, after which if he doesn't he gets killed as an apostate. Other scholars, such as Muhammed bin 'Ali ash-Shawkaani and many of the Ahnaaf and Thahiriyyah, didn't see that as permissable. For benefit, al-Imaam Abu Haneefah saw that the apostate woman should not be killed at all, due to the ahadeeth prohibting the killing of women, as can be read in the chapter of apostasy in al-Imaam as-Sin'aani's great book [i]Subulus-Salaam[.i]. But, he mentions a brief reply to that in the same book.

Wallahu a'lam.

- Abu Dujanah.


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O Allah teach us how to live, and we will learn how to die!

Imaam Muhammed bin 'Abdulwahaab said: "Verily those tawagheet, whom people believe, that it is obligatory to obey besides Allah - they are all kufaar apostates from Islaam.

"How can you say no?! When they make halaal what Allah made haraam, and made haraam what Allah has made halaal, and they seek to corrupt the land with their words, and actions and support? And whoever argues for them, or is critical of the one who does takfeer of them, or claims that this act of theirs - although wrong - still doesn't take them out of Islaam to kufr, then the least that one can say of this arguer is that he is a faasiq, because the deen of Islaam cannot be upright except with by seeking innocence from those people, and doing takfeer of them". - ar-Rasaa`il ash-Shakhsiyyah, page 188.

Jihaad was recalled in the precence of Imaam Ahmad, so he wept and said: "There is no act of piety better than it".

May Allah have mercy upon Imaam Ahl as-Sunnah, Ahmad bin Hanbal whom it was narrated said: "If you see people differing, then look for the people of thughoor (the frontlines), and see what they are upon. As Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, says: "And those who did Jihaad in Our way, then we will guide them to Our Path".

"This finger, that testifies to Allah's Oneness in prayer, refuses to write one letter affirming support to the rule of a taaghoot"- Sayyid Qutb, rahimahullah, infront of some judges at court.


Last edited by Abu Dujanah on 02-26-2003 at 01:03 PM

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02-21-2003 12:08 AM



returningsun
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exuse me... can someone please explain whom/what the apostates are?



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02-21-2003 01:51 AM



muslim21z
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i think i agree with abu dujanah because what the question comes down to is: Should we kill the puppet or kill the puppeteer? if we kill the puppet, then the puppeteer will simply take out another of his puppets from the chest and use that.

but i think the situation is much more complicated than that. for example, would the one who lives in afghanistan take the same paths to raise allah's word as the one who live in pakistan? or the one who lives in saudi? and etc?


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"By Allah! If the heavens were to meet the Earth, we will never accept the puppet government. Those who paid the price of victory with the blood of their martyrs, they are the most worthy to rule the land. As for all those sitting in the West, who neither did expend a single drop of blood for Allah's sake, nor did a drop of sweat trickle down their face for Allah's sake, whilst our people were being mercilessly slaughtered for centuries, what right do THEY have to come and rule Afghanistan?"
-Shaheed shaykh abdullah azzam



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02-21-2003 02:13 AM
 
The Pakistani Authorities say: "We have arrested Khaalid ash-Shaykh"
Abu Dujanah
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The Pakistani Authorities say: "We have arrested Khaalid ash-Shaykh"
Assalamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah,

And, again, I have the displeasure of narrating to you, my dear brothers and sisters, that the cursed Pakistani authorities, the enemies of Allah and His Messenger have informed the world media that Khaalid ash-Shaykh, whom the FBI claim is the planner of the attacks against America, has been arrested alongside two other brothers.

The Islaamic Observation Centre (www.marsad.net), confirmed it, and think we'll wait until Azzam Publications or Maktabat al-Ansaar confirms it too.

Sad news wallah, and to Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is the complaint.

- Abu Dujanah.



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03-01-2003 10:48 PM



atiyah84
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what is going thru the minds of the average pakistani soldier/police officer

how is he teaching his children about islam, and its importance, and how nothing is better than islam, as he goes out, hunts down a muslim and then turns this muslim over the kafirs for "justice"?

is islam only good for namaz? and zikr?

how can this police officer go to the masjid and pray, and within his mind know that islam is great when he is treating islam as being subservient to kafirs?

even if musharraf wanted to arrest these brothers for alleged crimes, that is entirely one thing

but to hand them over to kafirs??? what is in your mind???


o mankind, what has seduced you from your LOrd, al-karim?



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03-02-2003 02:01 AM



Muslimah_16
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May Allah send His wrath upon these hypocrites Ameen


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03-02-2003 03:42 AM



Abdraheim
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it is sad but there are even brainwashed moderate muslims in the west who would do exactly the same thing thinking they are ridding the "free" world of terrorists.

and if i remember correctly someone posted a link to a site a few weeks/months back of a so-called salafi site praising the arrest of some muslim brother in england

subhanallah it is haraam to hand over any muslims to the kuffar no matter what the crime even if it didnt have anything to do with defending Islam or Jihad. be it bank robbery, rape or murder. muslims are to be tried by Sharee'ah by Muslims and nothing or no one else full stop! and Allahu 'alam



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03-02-2003 04:57 AM



Qalb-al-Mujahida
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its really sad,

was watching it on CNN,





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03-02-2003 06:13 AM



Abu Qudama
punish the enemy with me

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Ina lilah wa ina ilayhi rajioon

"You shall not find a people who believe in Allah and the latter day befriending those who act in opposition to Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their (own) fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kinsfolk" 58.22

These people do not think like a muslim does, islam is the last thing on their minds, their only concern is to get their job done and go home.

The day they signed up in the police or army they became part of a government that implements kufr on its people, so it doesnt make any difference to them who they are arresting, the shaytan made it fair seeming to them, and they followed his footsteps.

Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us, He is our protector" and on Allah let the Believers put their trust .9.51

Do not forget to make duaa for our brothers, verily Allah will accpet the duaa of his slaves when they suplicate

"Allah has written down: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is Strong, Mighty" 58.21


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Those who believe, and have left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

Then Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and sent down hosts which you did not see, and punished those who disbelieved, and that is the reward of the disbelievers.



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03-02-2003 08:11 PM



muawiyah
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whether you are happy or in a state of calamity just praise Allah at all times for He is the one who delivers out from misery and affliction


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Oh My Ummah rejoice and be patient for we are to be superpowers again!
Imam Ahmad narrated that Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-Aas said, "While we were around the Messenger of Allah) writing (the Hadith) the Messenger of Allah sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam was asked/ 'Which of these two cities will be conquered first, Constantinople or Romiyah (Rome)?' He said, 'The city of Heraclius will first be conquered.' He meant Constantinople.'' [Al-Hakim, Al-Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 508. Also, see As-Silsilah as-Sahihah, vol. 1]
History is a witness that Constantinople or Istanbul was conquered by Sultan Mehmet al Fatih al Uthmani. However Rome was never captured. This will happen in the near future when once again Muslims will have prestige and glory.



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03-02-2003 08:39 PM



Hiba
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Assalamu aleikum,

did you see that strange picture they published? I don't recognize him... it shows a man who has been held for months if not years in prison... not someone who has been captured two days ago...

See for yourself... perhaps I am mistaken - but for me the man has a broken look - just another arab prisoner... and not the look of Khalid al sheikh...






The most characteristic of him are his eyes and his mustache - the man on the pic has a moustache like saddam and the eyes don't resemble the eyes of Khalid al Sheikh...






wa aleikum alsalam


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"Through knowledge, Allah, blessed be His Name, raises some people in rank, and He makes them leaders in righteousness and models in morality. The vestige of their faith is avidly sought, their deeds are emulated perceptively, and people will seek and sanction their opinions solicitously and unequivocally. The heavenly angels seek their company and anoint them with their wings, every fresh or withered life they pass by implore Almighty Allah to forgive them their sins, even the fish in the oceans, the beasts of the lands and every bird of prey and migratory bird pray and solicit the mercy of Almighty Allah on their behalf. This is because knowledge revives the dead hearts and drives them out of darkness into light, and because knowledge is the light of the inner eyes that cures one’s blindness and restores his inner sight."



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03-03-2003 01:11 PM



Abu Azzam
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Well I think they kept him awake.


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03-03-2003 11:27 PM



Abu Musa
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I heard on the news that the Pakistani authorities were so proud of their role in his capture that they took that picture while capturing him after he woke up to humiliate him.



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03-04-2003 01:21 AM



bismillah
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On the news they were talking about him and they said that he is refusing to speak to anyone...all he's doing is reading Al-Quranul Hakim. SubhanAllah.

Ameen to the duaa.


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"Nay (behold) ye prefer the life of this world; But the Hereafter is better and more enduring. And this is in the Books of the earliest(Revelations). The Books of Ibrahim and Musa."(Surah Al-A'la, ayat 16-19)



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03-04-2003 01:08 PM



Hiba
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Assalamu aleikum,

see what I have found in the pakistani newspaper the frontier post:


quote:
ISLAMABAD (NNI): No al-Qaeda activist including Khalid Shaikh Mohammad has been arrested from the house of my father, Dr. Abdul Qadoose Khan, Mrs. Qudsia Khanam sister of Ahmed Abdul Qadoose has told a news conference at Rawalpindi Press Club on Monday evening. “This is absolutely incorrect that any of al-Qaeda member including Khalid Shaikh Mohammad and another what the officials claimed an Egyptian origin,” daughter of Dr. A. Q. Khan has said. She and other family members including mother of the suspects of al-Qaeda have declared of getting justice from the country’s superior courts on raiding heir home and arresting what they claimed innocent Ahmed Qadoose. She demanded the government to release immediate his innocent brother, Ahmed Abdul Qadoose (43), saying, “he only have two or three friends who are infect his cousins and how a man determined with low IQ level could be conceived as a terrorist or having linkage with any internationally known racket of extremists who even avoid to go out of home.” The government has claimed earlier that KSM and another Arabic speaking had been arrested from the house of Qadoose family along with Ahmed Abdul Qadoose. The Qadoose family has also announced to move Lahore High Court Rawalpindi Bench for the release of Ahmed Abdul Qadoose, arrested from Westridge on suspected linkage with al-Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden.



wa aleikum alsalam

Hiba


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"Through knowledge, Allah, blessed be His Name, raises some people in rank, and He makes them leaders in righteousness and models in morality. The vestige of their faith is avidly sought, their deeds are emulated perceptively, and people will seek and sanction their opinions solicitously and unequivocally. The heavenly angels seek their company and anoint them with their wings, every fresh or withered life they pass by implore Almighty Allah to forgive them their sins, even the fish in the oceans, the beasts of the lands and every bird of prey and migratory bird pray and solicit the mercy of Almighty Allah on their behalf. This is because knowledge revives the dead hearts and drives them out of darkness into light, and because knowledge is the light of the inner eyes that cures one’s blindness and restores his inner sight."



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03-04-2003 01:30 PM



nightstar
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quote:
did you see that strange picture they published? I don't recognize him... it shows a man who has been held for months if not years in prison... not someone who has been captured two days ago...


Reportedly, Khalid al Sheikh has been a little bit too good to himself of late. He has had a party reputation compared to Pakis, and I must admit... he looks as though he has been doing nothing but eating, drinking and partying to excess.

Insiders report that he had been on a four day drinking binge, which is how he was captured...



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03-04-2003 08:28 PM



Abu Dujanah
al-Muwahhid

Brother
Registered: Dec 2001
Location:
Posts: 1089
Assalamu 'alaykum,

HammerStorm, admins, please, just kick this clown out.

- Abu Dujanah.


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O Allah teach us how to live, and we will learn how to die!

Imaam Muhammed bin 'Abdulwahaab said: "Verily those tawagheet, whom people believe, that it is obligatory to obey besides Allah - they are all kufaar apostates from Islaam.

"How can you say no?! When they make halaal what Allah made haraam, and made haraam what Allah has made halaal, and they seek to corrupt the land with their words, and actions and support? And whoever argues for them, or is critical of the one who does takfeer of them, or claims that this act of theirs - although wrong - still doesn't take them out of Islaam to kufr, then the least that one can say of this arguer is that he is a faasiq, because the deen of Islaam cannot be upright except with by seeking innocence from those people, and doing takfeer of them". - ar-Rasaa`il ash-Shakhsiyyah, page 188.

Jihaad was recalled in the precence of Imaam Ahmad, so he wept and said: "There is no act of piety better than it".

May Allah have mercy upon Imaam Ahl as-Sunnah, Ahmad bin Hanbal whom it was narrated said: "If you see people differing, then look for the people of thughoor (the frontlines), and see what they are upon. As Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, says: "And those who did Jihaad in Our way, then we will guide them to Our Path".

"This finger, that testifies to Allah's Oneness in prayer, refuses to write one letter affirming support to the rule of a taaghoot"- Sayyid Qutb, rahimahullah, infront of some judges at court.



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03-04-2003 08:49 PM



Raafi
ÇáÌÏ

Brother
Registered: May 2002
Location: East Orange, NJ, USA
Posts: 1395
mr nightstar may not understand that because someone says this or that, it may not be so

and that we try to show our brothers in the best light, this is the proper etiquette of a muslim to another muslim

i read similar stories, but knowing how bush said that mis-information is ok these days, it would not suprise any of us if the newspapers were fed such things only to discredit the man

he has not been arrested for drinking or whatever else they say, so why did they even mention it? is it because they are so concerned about sheikh's level of imaan that they are concerned about any haram behaviour?

no

they only print such things only to discredit the man

so thats why we abhor such statements and posts


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03-04-2003 09:10 PM

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