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Wednesday, October 29, 2003
 
Hamas And Jihaad
Post #1
UmmuAnnoosi
Registered User



Joined: Sep 2003
Location: not where i want to be


As Salaamu aleykum wa rahmatullaah

I don't know to which forum i should post this thread so if it's in wrong place i hope it will be moved to it's right place, insha a Allaah. jazakAllaahu khairan.

I read thread "poll about favorite Jihaad commander" and i regognized that many mentioned hamas and their leaders. I would like to raise discussion about the Jihaad in Palestine and how it's done.

When you look at the Jihaad in the other places of the world you se that they are much more succesfull than that in Palestine for example in Afghanistan, Sheeshaan, Bosnia and now in Iraq.Masha a Allaah, the brothers have managed to kill the soldiers and even commanders and they are doing it by face to face fighting, that i think it's the real Jihaad and real meaning of it.

But in Palestine you don't see the mujahedeen doing that; they prefer the suicide operations. And when they do them , they don't manage to kill soldiers or anyone who "would make a difference", the ppl who die are usually elders, or other civilians.

So i have been wondering if this sort of acts are permissible, and there's 2 reasons why i think that

a, killing yourself is haraam, generally
b, killing elders, children, women and other civilians is not permissible, generally

And also, hamas is known to be an ikhwaani organization and the others, like in Sheeshaan , Afghanistan and now in Iraaq are upon Salafi manhaj. They also do their Jihaad in different manner.

I would like to know your opinion about this, and please do not attack on me, because i have sincere intention and i'm very often depressed about the situation in Palestine because it never seems to improve, like the other places.

I also see there's difference between sept.11th attack than these that take place in Palestine because they didn't have any other possible way to attack their enemies, but in Palestine, like in other places, i think they could build an united army and fight and not to kill themselves in attacks where they sometimes end up wounding a few ppl and killing none, and who are also "civilians".

BarakAllaahu feekum. JazakumulLaahu khairan.
__________________
'What can my enemies do to me?
I have in my breast both my Heaven and my Garden.
If I travel they are with me, and they never leave me.
Imprisonment for me is a religious retreat [khalwa].
To be slain for me is martyrdom [shahada]
And to be exiled from my land is a spiritual journey [siyaha].' -Ibn Taymiyah




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10-25-2003, 10:42 PM
Post #2
Abbas Ibn Firnas
Registered User



Joined: Jan 2003
Location: AMsterdam


Subhanalah..sis U are really mistaken.

JIhad in Palestine is far more difficult than in every other place. In chechnya and other places they got much weaponry. In Palestine they have nothing and no heavy weaponry. The mujahideen hamas en jihad are the most excellent mujahideen in contemporary times for fighting a fight against the harshest enemies: The jews,Americans and the secular and Christian Palestinians.

They are fighting a fight which is soo difficult U can't even imagine. They fight fights in heavy populated areas with in every area a buffer of jewish milltaire posts which overlooks this area's . All the area's are splitted. So that there can be no effective communication between fieldcommanders and so that there can be no large scale attack on jewish outpost.

If u know the geography of these Palestinian area's U gonna have much much respect for these mujahideen. They don't have the high mountains of Chechnya or Afghanistan , they don't have the forrests of Bosnia or the fillipines. No they are fighting in slumps..

It's hardcore streetfighting and it's face to face.

About the martyrdomattacks and that only civilians suffer of these kind atacks...this is really bull..

The jewisch occupiers they aren't civilians. And these kind of tactics are only used cuz there are no other more effective tactics against this enemy.

ANd the greatest commander in the ninetees was for me yehiya ayyash. Maybe U should read his biography.

Wa salamu alaikum
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10-26-2003, 01:54 AM
Post #3
Ibn_Saif
Abu Usamah



Joined: Jun 2002
Location: I eat fish in NY


where would i be able to get an english biography of the ameer u mentioned.. or biographies on hamas in general inshAllah
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And when you wanted me
I came to you
And when you wanted someone else
I withdrew
And when you asked for light
I set myself on fire
And if I go far away I know
You'll find another slave
"Jihad and the Rifle alone"
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10-26-2003, 12:50 PM
Post #4
Abbas Ibn Firnas
Registered User



Joined: Jan 2003
Location: AMsterdam


Originally Posted by Ibn_Saif
where would i be able to get an english biography of the ameer u mentioned.. or biographies on hamas in general inshAllah
Go to www.ezzedeen.net

U will find everything U need
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Yesterday, 11:32 PM
Post #5
graham
Registered User

Joined: Oct 2003


Do you have a URL for the English section of www.ezzedeen.net
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Yesterday, 11:39 PM
Post #6
Ibn_Saif
Abu Usamah



Joined: Jun 2002
Location: I eat fish in NY


jazak Allah khayr
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And when you wanted me
I came to you
And when you wanted someone else
I withdrew
And when you asked for light
I set myself on fire
And if I go far away I know
You'll find another slave
"Jihad and the Rifle alone"
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Today, 01:48 AM

Keep Up the Fight
Post #7
Maalik
Registered User

Joined: Oct 2003


All Praise is For Allah Alone, and may He Bless the mujaahideen in Palistine and everywhere. I dont know much specific history of Hamas but i believe they are doing the best they can and fighting the good fight. As the one brother commented they are up against difficult odds and dont have enough weaponry or support from all the muslim countries that are surrounding palistine.

You talk about civilians getting killed? The IDF or Isreali Defence Forces have murdered countless numbers of unarmed and civilian Palistinians. This kind of news of murders of Palistinian civilians rarely gets news coverage or is spoken about briefly. The point is that the Isreali´s have stolen the land they are now calling Isreal!!! They stole it with the help of the U.S. and the United Nations back in 1948.(Not to forget some foolish Palistinians sold some of their land also to the Jews)which was a big mistake!!! The land belonged to the Palastinians even before the time when Allah allowed Moses and the Israeli´s to take the land thousands of years ago. The land does not belong to them because they never really had their own land. They were nomadic peoples before they ever set foot in Palistine. When Allah told them to take the land in the time of Moses, it was for a reason. The reason was to take the people of palistine away from the Polytheism they were commiting ie. worshiping idols and other sinful acts. They( Bani Israel) were sent (in that time to take the land and show its people what Tawheed was) worshiping non but Allah alone. In the begining they did what they were told and later on they fell into fitnah causing them to be again nomads in other lands. Allah´s perpose for them being the so called " chosen people of God" was not out of racism like they are guilty of today. They were chossen to conquer and give dawah too Tawheed. Simple as that! And later on they faled this mission!

So why do Jews that originate in Russia, former eastern european block countries, and middle europe claim that that land is theirs, holding on to thousands of years old claims that they are Allah´s chosen people and thats their land. Answer: There is oil in the middle east. With the Isreali presence there the U.S. and England dont have to pay to have their troops or bases there. And they are Nuclear ready, the first to have nukes in the middle east yet the IAEA doesnt say too much against them but badgers Iran and others. For those who cant see , its a rape of the muslim and Arab lands and natural resources.Its about Politics and Money for them because we muslims are the ones who seem to care more about religion in general. Most of us!!!

To make this short, its the duty of those in Palistine and around it to kick the occupying theives and their families out of the land stolen from the Palistinians and their families. Its the duty of every muslim to fight the kufr with his hands if he can, in his heart, or with money and material support. No kissing the backsides of the white house staff like most muslim leaders in the world are doing today. They always say "we need to talk with Washington" instead of " lets make two Rakaah of salaat and ask Allah for what we need!!! So go back to Russia Mr. Sharon where your parents came from in 1922. We muslims should not compromise with theft or oppression. Hamas is doing the right thing. Because i guarantee if some muslim army came to take over Florida and establish Shariah law and a muslim state there and told them no more disco´s, pigmeat, or alcohol, every american and his mother would fight against it and some who call themselves muslim would help cause they dont want real Islam established in the land!!! They would be screaming " give me liberty or give me death" And the true muslims are saying in Palistine. " Give us Islam, Sharia, and our rights back, or give us death" The kufr started this war, so dont ask for compromise or peace now. Leave and let there be justice in the land, then there will be peace insh. So keep Fighting Mujahideen!!! Keep Praying !!! And Making Dua to Allah. We will win in the end InshaAllah!!!
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Today, 02:20 AM

Some Evidince
Post #8
Maalik
Registered User

Joined: Oct 2003


As-salamualikum wa-rahmatullah


Dear sister Ummu Annoosi, you said that you are not sure that the Martyrdom Operations mistakinly called " suicide operations" , if they are permisible or not. There is proof for and proof against from the schoolars about this. And it can depend on what the schoolar has in his heart or who he works for plus his aim. But i found this evidence for the permisability of Martyrdom Opps and in the end you must ask Allah with a sincere heart. He will give you the answer. But for now here is some daLiL or proof from
http://www.cdfe.org/martyrdom_operations.htm. May Allah guide us to His Right Path and give us His Jenaah Firdus and forgive our mistakes. Amin
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Monday, October 27, 2003
 
Ramadaan has arrived. LET 'ER RIP BABY!!!
Post #1
IbnMardhiyah
ClearGuidance Moderator



Joined: Dec 2001
Location: I'm from Earth. What about you?


Damn.

The mujahideen sure know how to welcome Ramadaan.

yet another Blackhawk down in the first opening salvos of the month of Ramadaan, a month which is a nightmare for all imperialistic tyrants who have invaded our countries and a month of sakeenah and 3izzah for the muslimoon.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CB10



In Iraq. Near Tikrit.

ahlaan ya Ramadaan.

allaahummansural mujahideen fe sha7r Ramadaan bil intesaraat al'kabeer

WOOHOOOOO!

ROCK ON!!!
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Yesterday, 01:20 AM
Post #2
bismillah
subhanallah



Joined: Sep 2002
Location: home


whoaa subhanallah...wicked. La howla wala quwwata ila billah! ...brought my mood back up...allah akbar...

Was salaamun alaikum...
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"To harbour good thoughts is a part of well conducted worship." (Abu Hurairah (ra), Abu Dawud, Vol. III, p1389, No. 4975)
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Yesterday, 01:25 AM
Post #3
Bint_Ibrahim
Umm Khansaa



Joined: Dec 2001
Location: uk,london


Allahu akbar! ..welcome o month of ramadhaan.......
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Someone told Hasan Basri (Rahmatullahi alaiyh) that a certain person had gossiped about him. Hearing this, Hasan Basri sent a box of fresh dates to the person with the message, " I have come to learn that you have given me the rewards of your good actions. I have sent this small gift in appreciation. Please forgive me for not returning the favour in full."
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Yesterday, 01:48 AM
Post #4
Abu Jihad
My Lord,grant me shahadah



Joined: Apr 2002


Hehe.Aameen to the du'aa.

WOOHOOOOO!

ROCK ON!!!
HELL YEAAHH!!
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Yesterday, 01:10 AM
Post #5
HammerStorm
2:216-3:151-157-5:54-9:24



Joined: Apr 2002


ÞóÇÊöáõæåõãú íõÚóÐøöÈúåõãõ Çááøåõ ÈöÃóíúÏöíßõãú æóíõÎúÒöåöãú æóíóäÕõÑúßõãú Úóáóíúåöãú æóíóÔúÝö ÕõÏõæÑó Þóæúãò ãøõÄúãöäöíäó

æóíõÐúåöÈú ÛóíúÙó ÞõáõæÈöåöãú æóíóÊõæÈõ Çááøåõ Úóáóì ãóä íóÔóÇÁ æóÇááøåõ Úóáöíãñ Íóßöíãñ



9:14-15 - Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people and remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
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Yesterday, 02:10 AM
Post #6
Abu Jihad
My Lord,grant me shahadah



Joined: Apr 2002


æóáóÞóÏú ÓóÈóÞóÊú ßóáöãóÊõäóÇ áöÚöÈóÇÏöäóÇ ÇáúãõÑúÓóáöíäó
Åöäøóåõãú áóåõãõ ÇáúãóäÕõæÑõæäó
æóÅöäøó ÌõäÏóäóÇ áóåõãõ ÇáúÛóÇáöÈõæäó
ÝóÊóæóáøó Úóäúåõãú ÍóÊøóì Íöíäò
æóÃóÈúÕöÑúåõãú ÝóÓóæúÝó íõÈúÕöÑõæäó
ÃóÝóÈöÚóÐóÇÈöäóÇ íóÓúÊóÚúÌöáõæäó
ÝóÅöÐóÇ äóÒóáó ÈöÓóÇÍóÊöåöãú ÝóÓóÇÁ ÕóÈóÇÍõ ÇáúãõäÐóÑöíäó
æóÊóæóáøó Úóäúåõãú ÍóÊøóì Íöíäò
æóÃóÈúÕöÑú ÝóÓóæúÝó íõÈúÕöÑõæäó
ÓõÈúÍóÇäó ÑóÈøößó ÑóÈøö ÇáúÚöÒøóÉö ÚóãøóÇ íóÕöÝõæäó
æóÓóáóÇãñ Úóáóì ÇáúãõÑúÓóáöíäó
æóÇáúÍóãúÏõ áöáøóåö ÑóÈøö ÇáúÚóÇáóãöíä


171. And, verily, Our Word has gone forth of old for Our slaves, the Messengers,

172. That they verily would be made triumphant.

173. And that Our hosts, they verily would be the victors.

174. So turn away (O Muhammad SAW) from them for a while,

175. And watch them and they shall see (the punishment)!

176. Do they seek to hasten on Our Torment?

177. Then, when it descends into their courtyard (i.e. near to them), evil will be the morning for those who had been warned!

178. So turn (O Muhammad SAW) away from them for a while,

179. And watch and they shall see (the torment)!

180. Glorified be your Lord, the Lord of Honour and Power! (He is free) from what they attribute unto Him!

181. And peace be on the Messengers!

182. And all the praise and thanks be to Allâh, Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

Soorah As-Saaffaat, aayaat 171-182.
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Last edited by Abu Jihad on 10-26-2003 at 02:12 AM.
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Yesterday, 02:40 AM
Post #7
Karse ibn Kson
Banned

Joined: Oct 2003
Location: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


yet another Blackhawk down in the first opening salvos of the month of Ramadaan, a month which is a nightmare for all imperialistic tyrants who have invaded our countries and a month of sakeenah and 3izzah for the muslimoon.
Good thing no one was killed on the chopper or on the ground for that matter. God must have been watching over that gunships crew when the cowardly dogs fired on them.
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Yesterday, 02:45 AM
Post #8
IbnMardhiyah
ClearGuidance Moderator



Joined: Dec 2001
Location: I'm from Earth. What about you?


As if you were there to see that no one was killed or injured.

On another note, if you have nothing constructive to add, then please, bid adieu to this board or take a hint.
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Yesterday, 03:42 AM
Post #9
nightsniper
Registered User



Joined: May 2002


Mashahallah allahu akbar labaik wa saddik labaik
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Yesterday, 05:55 AM
Post #10
careydevi
Musalli-Israeli.



Joined: Jan 2003
Location: In Medias Nes.


labaik wa saddik labaik?????
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Prayer is a cure for many diseases


"Sacred is the prayer that asks for nothing"
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Yesterday, 08:09 AM
Post #11
Soulja
áÇÈÏ Ãä íÚæÏ ÇáÍÞ íæãÇð..



Joined: Apr 2003
Location: ÃÑÖ Çááå ÇáæÇÓÚå


Wicked..I'ma go spend me ramadhan in Iraq
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ÃÑì ÇáãÌÏ ÕÚÈÇ ÛíÑ Óåá ÇáÊäÇæá ~ ÔÏíÏÇð ÃÈÜÜíÇ ãÚÌÜÜÒÇð ááãÍÜÜÜÜÜÇæá
ÈÚíÏ ãÑÇã äÇÏÑÇð ãä íÍÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜæÒå ~ íÔÞ Úáì Ãåá ÇáÏäÜÜÇíÜÜÜÇ ÇáÃÑÇÐá
æÃåá ÇáÚáÇ ÞÏ äÇÝÓæÇ Ýí ÇßÊÓÇÈÜÜÜå ~ ÝßÇäæÇ Èå ÃÍíÇÁ ÊÍÊ ÇáÌäÜÜÜÜÜÇÏá
ÝáÇ ãÌÜÜÜÜÜÏ ÅáÇ ÈÇåÊãÜÜÜÇãò æÑÛÈÜÜÜÜÉ ~ æ ÞæÉ ÚÒã Ýí ÇßÊÓÇÈ ÇáÝÖÇÆá
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Yesterday, 09:31 AM
Post #12
ismiyy
Tawwakkul Ala Allah



Joined: Jul 2002
Location: UK


"Sacred is the prayer that asks for nothing"


Who said this?
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Åöäøó ÇáÏøöíäó ÚöäÏó Çááøåö ÇáÅöÓúáÇóãõ æóãóÇ ÇÎúÊóáóÝó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæúÊõæÇú ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó ÅöáÇøó ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ÌóÇÁåõãõ ÇáúÚöáúãõ ÈóÛúíðÇ Èóíúäóåõãú æóãóä íóßúÝõÑú ÈöÂíóÇÊö Çááøåö ÝóÅöäøó Çááøåö ÓóÑöíÚõ ÇáúÍöÓóÇÈö

The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account [Surah 3:19 ]

ÞõÞõáú åóÜÐöåö ÓóÈöíáöí ÃóÏúÚõæ Åöáóì Çááøåö Úóáóì ÈóÕöíÑóÉò ÃóäóÇú æóãóäö ÇÊøóÈóÚóäöí æóÓõÈúÍóÇäó Çááøåö æóãóÇ ÃóäóÇú ãöäó ÇáúãõÔúÑößöíäó

Say thou: "This is my way: I do invite unto Allah,- on evidence clear as the seeing with one's eyes,- I and whoever follows me. Glory to Allah! and never will I join gods with Allah!" [12:108]
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Yesterday, 10:12 AM
Post #13
abu_bakr
24434



Joined: Jun 2002
Location: -------------------->




Visiting US Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz has escaped unhurt after a rocket attack on his hotel in Baghdad.

Up to eight rockets were fired at the Hotel al-Rashid, one of the most heavily guarded sites in the Iraqi capital.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3214901.stm
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This nation will get sick but it does not die

And will doze but it does not sleep

So do not lose your hope, you will return your glory
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Yesterday, 11:10 AM
Post #14
UmmKhubayb
Yaa Aqsa!!!



Joined: Apr 2002
Location: UK


Erm, isn't it not ramadhan yet, until maghrib tonight?
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"The people have forgotten the path to victory.
They think that victory will come easy
Victory will not come without blood flowing.
Where is the Jihaad of Rasoolullah?
O my people you are in the valley and I am calling you.
Take the light of guidance to be a soldier for the sake of Allah"
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Yesterday, 12:23 PM
Post #15
Abu Dujanah
ÃÎæ ãä ØÇÚ Çááå



Joined: Dec 2001


Here you go....

You think it's all over?

It is now...


Oh wait....Poor thing...

Must be a great feeling man, like a Mike Tyson blow to the face...
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Sunday, October 26, 2003
 
Congratulations


Today, 02:37 PM
Congratulations
Post #1
HammerStorm
2:216-3:151-157-5:54-9:24



Joined: Apr 2002


Congratulations to Pakistan.

Let me first make clear the distinction between a Muslim army and an Islaamic one.

A Muslim army is the army of any Muslim country. However it is often used only in the defense of political borders or in the defense of secularism and disbelief.

An Islaamic one is one that is used in the defense of Islaam and the Muslims. Ofter referred to as the mujahideen, such an army has no allegiance to any country but only to Allaah and His Messenger.

Notwithstanding the fact that [currently] Pakistan is using her armed forces in the defense of Disbelief - Pakistan so far is the only Muslim country that not only has her own nuclear weapons, not only does she produce her own main battle tank [ak-Khalid] but now also produces her own fighter aircraft.

I ask Allaah to guide the Muslims in the Pakistani armed forces so they use such force for proper reasons or, to make these fall into the hands of the mujahideen.






Not bad.
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Today, 02:43 PM
Post #2
YS333
Registered User

Joined: Mar 2003
Location: England


my uncle told me some stories about pakistani air force(his dad was chief warrant officer in PAF and served in 60's war against india) and they have some very intelligent and brave people. just if they had a true muslim leader it would be better.
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Today, 02:45 PM
Post #3
Majid
Ghauri



Joined: Dec 2001


Ameen.

There was also a report out in the news this week about Pakistan helping Saudi Arabia in the process of getting Nukes in exchange of cheap oil..(dont know whether this was true..)

Israel certainly doesn't like the fact, of a Muslim country having nuclear weapons..nor does America for that matter.
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person101
Registered User



Joined: Jun 2003


As sallamu alaikum

I read on a (not the official one) Pakistani Defense website that the super-7 is generally thought to be low or medium tech. Is this true???!!!
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Yesterday, 03:54 PM
Post #5
ameen
Indeed My Life..im Rose15

Joined: Oct 2003
Location: surrounded by millionaires


Originally Posted by YS333
my uncle told me some stories about pakistani air force(his dad was chief warrant officer in PAF and served in 60's war against india) and they have some very intelligent and brave people. just if they had a true muslim leader it would be better.
here here!! ure not wrong
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A true believer loves for his brother what he loves for himself.

-The Prophet Muhammad, as reported by Anas bin Malik
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Yesterday, 04:22 PM
Post #6
Argonaut
Perpetually Learning



Joined: Oct 2003


As salamu alaikum,

Wow, cool planes It's all very well having the weaponry... I just hope Pakistan use it to do something for Islam.
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Peace, health and Allah's blessings upon you.
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Yesterday, 04:26 PM
Post #7
IbnMardhiyah
ClearGuidance Moderator



Joined: Dec 2001
Location: I'm from Earth. What about you?


Originally Posted by person101
As sallamu alaikum

I read on a (not the official one) Pakistani Defense website that the super-7 is generally thought to be low or medium tech. Is this true???!!!
Yeah its actual classification is ' light ' and not as in heavy-attack fighter or whatever....its meant for dogfights and patrolling the skies etc. But yeah I agree I think its a start too bad it aint in the totally right direction.
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Yesterday, 04:44 PM
Post #8
Muhammed_LasVegas


Joined: May 2002
Location: Las Vegas


60's war against india
In that war Pakistan was advancing into Indian terroritory, but when the UN saw that .. all the sudden they decided to declare a ceasefire. Alas! After that war we had Military Generals who went after WWW, and in 71 East Pakistan became Bangladesh and 90 Thousand Muslim young men became prisoners of war.
Inalilahi wa ina ilahi raji'oon
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ÀÇʪ ãÙáæã ÈÀäæŸ ˜ÿ Àæä?ÿ ÇæÑ Àæ?Ç ?ÑیŸ ÈÇŸ ÊیÑÇ
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Àÿ ãÍÈÊ ÊÑی ÏäیÇæی ˜Çã Óÿ
ÇááÀ ?æ?ªä?ÿ Çÿ äæÌæÇäæŸ ˜یÇ ?šªÇ 滂 äÀ ÞÑÂä ãیÑÇ ¿
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Yesterday, 04:45 PM
Post #9
Muhammed_LasVegas


Joined: May 2002
Location: Las Vegas


Pakistan is giving some Al Khalids to the Saudi government.
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Yesterday, 11:23 PM
Post #10
Abu Azzam
Jihad is for peace



Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Let me think...


Saudi Arab is also making Al-Fahad light aromored fighting vehicles like btr's of russia.
(Super-7, Jf-17, Fc-1) is a medium tech light multirole fighter. It is a fighter bomber which can't actully match F-16 but Alhumdulilah ca carry operations of F-16 and can carry beyond visual range air to air missiles and air to ground missiles and Laser guided bombs too. Mashallah.
And Iran is also making an aircraft similar to F-20 of America it is in trail basis.
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Today, 01:11 PM
Post #11
ismiyy
Tawwakkul Ala Allah



Joined: Jul 2002
Location: UK


another thing...doesnt matter if the technology is not so good...

Jordanian airpilots regularly beat american F16's in mock dog fights, and the like (stand off as well) in just their F5's!!!

They also speak of how easy it is to do (but that might just be thier ego).

But yeah, americans, even with their technology still suck. I havent spoken to them more recently, which is when the F22's might be used in training, or even the JSF...Allahu Alim how they might cope with those in the F5's.

btw...yes jordan has some F16's but there is something in the targetting system that will not allow it to target an american target...
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